Wednesday, August 6th, 2014 10:45 pm
Man I'm still never entirely sure what I think about ffa ([community profile] fail_fandomanon) I've been thinking about it recently after a friend of mine had to leave because the incredibly nasty things people say there about a group she's in were bringing her down. I wish there was somewhere I could go for active fannish conversations that was less likely to randomly dissolve into intense ableism/transphobia/whatever and that didn't assume anyone there was, by definition, "anti-sj". (I mean I am against "sjw"s by the definition of "bully or abuser who uses social justice terminology". Because I'm against all bullies and abusers! But there are plenty of people there who are against any serious attempt at social change, and/or whose definition of sjw includes me and many of my friends)

It took me a long time to learn to recognise the difference between trolls who don't represent the average views at all and more mainstream opinions. It's not fair to hold up the worst of the group as representative of the whole, and there's a pretty wide range of opinions even once you exclude the outliers. But (a)Knowing someone's a troll doesn't always remove the sting of what they've said and (b)The mainstream opinions can still be pretty awful. And that's just on abstract topics, once they start talking about individual fans it can get nasty, hypocritical and just WRONG (the reactions to my own meta haven't been too meansprited, but they tended to miss the point or focus on trivialities. Which admitedly can in part be blamed on my own lack of clarity)

Urg, I'm tired, I'm not expressing this very well. Guess I'm not up to much beyond reading ffa and feeling weird about it :/
Tags:
Wednesday, August 6th, 2014 05:45 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry about what happened to your friend.

I never read FFA unless someone directed me to a particular thread, because I hate all that endless scrolling through hundreds of comments.

We used to have fannish discussions in our own journals. I want that practice to continue. Do you have a theory about why, in your neck of the fannish woods, it all went to anon comms?

When I post about fannish topics, often people will come by and discuss. Does that not happen in your own journal any more?

In any case, hang in there.
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 12:46 pm (UTC)
This makes sense -- to you it's a feature; to me it's a bug! :)

Fandom. Something for everyone….

Yeah, I'm glad so much of my fandom is on DW. If everything I'm interested in moved to Tumblr, I would have to grit my teeth and get one, and I so don't want to. This must be how the list/private archive people felt when LJ came along about 15 years ago….

Thursday, August 7th, 2014 11:01 am (UTC)
Do you have a theory about why, in your neck of the fannish woods, it all went to anon comms?

My observation is that in mega-fandoms, at seemingly random intervals, someone would write an unpopular opinion in their own space, someone who disagreed would comment on it elsewhere with side orders of how wrong this person was and what any right minded person would think, etc. there would be signal boosting, someone would go back to the original journal and be unkind and/or unpleasant, sometimes there was pushback, and frequently there was dog-piling.
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 12:44 pm (UTC)
That makes me sad. I honestly enjoy discussions with people I disagree with, but if it turns nasty and turns into dogpiling, that's no fun at all. Plus people don't learn anything.
(Anonymous)
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 02:09 am (UTC)
I am absolutely certain what I think about FFA, and I would never post those thoughts publicly, and so far, have not posted them behind a friendslock because some of my friends participate in FFA.

>>It's not fair to hold up the worst of the group as representative of the whole

I suppose not, but nor is it fair to expect people to ignore the worst and only judge the good parts.
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 03:09 am (UTC)
I am not fond of anon communities and don't post in them. I do understand why people have moved to them: they are afraid to express honest opinions in their own journals.
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 05:15 am (UTC)

That makes sense. I rarely read them either.

Saturday, August 9th, 2014 11:19 am (UTC)
Nah. I say the same stuff there I say in my own journal and other places where names are required. It's sometimes just nice to have a conversation where people don't participate with pre-established opinions about other posters, or any knowledge of them.

ETA: Although I'll give you this, there is one kind of opinion I share there and not in my journal and that is that I am fed the hell up with the MCU and Captain America and I would rejoice if that whole thing went away tomorrow and was never heard from again. But that would mean upsetting my friends who love this stuff and I don't want to grump on the things that make them happy. In such cases it's easier to commiserate with fellow MCU haters elsewhere.
Edited 2014-08-09 11:27 am (UTC)
Saturday, August 9th, 2014 03:10 pm (UTC)
ETA: Although I'll give you this, there is one kind of opinion I share there and not in my journal and that is that I am fed the hell up with the MCU and Captain America and I would rejoice if that whole thing went away tomorrow and was never heard from again. But that would mean upsetting my friends who love this stuff and I don't want to grump on the things that make them happy. In such cases it's easier to commiserate with fellow MCU haters elsewhere.

Wow. Thank you. I thought I was the only one in fandom who felt this way. I walked out of Iron Man 2 and haven't been back to see a comic-book movie since. While I wouldn't diss the movies in someone else's journal, I think it's pretty obvious to anyone who knows me that I am not on the MCU bandwagon. Is there a weekly commenting place for MCU at FFA? At least reading it would make me feel less weird and alone, I guess. Sherlock is the other popular show that I'm not comfortable criticizing in my journal. And those Lord of the Rings books, I guess.
(Anonymous)
Saturday, August 9th, 2014 08:11 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah, every now and then a thread will pop up where people can vent about this to their hearts' desire. Sometimes the MCU fans barge in and get insufferable in their desire to defend everything forever (which I don't understand; if somebody hates the thing I love what does it matter? as long as they're not telling me I shouldn't like it, they can criticise it all they like) but last post there was an "overexposure leads to hatred" thread that focused plenty on these megafandoms that just keep going because the canon isn't taking any breaks either.
Saturday, August 9th, 2014 08:13 pm (UTC)
Aaaand the anon comment was me because I was in FFA just now recommending friendship-themed books to people.
(Anonymous)
Wednesday, August 13th, 2014 06:46 pm (UTC)
Sometimes I think it's legitimate fear of dogpiling for having a counter-trend opinion.

OTOH, when the "honest opinion" is "Fan X is terrible and a blight upon fandom and also I don't like their face or their cat photos or the sappy way they talk to their girlfriend*" and they are afraid to express it in their own journal because Fan X and Fan X's friends might not like them and they want to be vicious without social consquence...yeah, it's "safer" to say it on an anonmeme where there will be zero social consequences beyond other anons disagreeing.

*actual anonmeme bitching about a couple friends of mine, only it was nastier

(You can probably guess that I and most of my friends have at one point been Fan X, and I'm not much of a fan of any form of discourse that involves 'hate' threads devoted to specific people. But one of my recent fandoms has an exceptionally vicious anonmeme all its own; I ended up leaving the fandom entirely because just knowing they existed and people would keep grudgewanking about everyone I liked sapped all the fun from the fandom for me. I hope it made them happy, anyway; happily my current fandoms are so tiny that everyone seems to have the common sense to keep any crankiness private lest the entire fandom collapse.)
Thursday, August 7th, 2014 04:11 am (UTC)
once they start talking about individual fans it can get nasty, hypocritical and just WRONG

I used to go on there to read threads I was linked to. But then I decided to search for femslash in case I missed interesting conversations and saw someone trolling about me personally, and rethought f_fa entirely. Nope, not for me. (It kind of made me realize that I should've had more empathy for other people called out by name on there, some of whom may have done bad things, others of whom probably didn't and just got trolled.)

I think I know what you're saying, though, honestly. And if you choose to keep reading, though I did not, I understand. There have been some good threads on there.
Saturday, August 9th, 2014 11:15 am (UTC)
I dunno, I like the place more than I don't. I keep to the book yammer or the recipe and advice threads, I never say stuff I wouldn't say in namespace, and when I start feeling stressed by it I take it as a sign that I need to step away rather than that the forum itself is bad. If I did the latter I'd just quit dreamwidth and tumblr too.
Thursday, August 21st, 2014 01:21 pm (UTC)
No, you need to control your space, I totally get that. I'm just... I get fed up with ffa but then I get fed up with everything, so I try to focus on what it is in me that's making me vexed, rather than the internet environment I'm in.