Misc links

[sqbr]

I have actual coherent thought I was hoping to make into a post but whenever I try I fall asleep. So! Links.

On generous listening I have linked to my reply which has some of my thoughts on the topic. (And when I am less sleepy, I will reply to her reply!)

Dirty Girls and Bad Feminists: A Few Thoughts on “I Love Dick”

This is an old post but it connects with some stuff I've been thinking about. I've been thinking about which criticisms of social justice activism etc I find helpful, and I think saying "What I/we should do.." rather than "What they should do.." is a big part of it.

On note of Classism trumping Racism A nice rebuttal to a point of view one encounters in various places.

Why Accuracy in Historical M/M Romance Matters This is similar to my approach to historical f/f and m/f etc. I have a niggling feeling that I'd disagree with some of it if I was more awake, though.

Comments

[ex_peasant441]

I haven't read the whole of the 'I Love Dick' link (it's half three in the morning and it's tl) but the gist I got from skimming it was that she was uneasy about the 'social justice by numbers' that can arise on the internet. I would say that sense that people are working from a common script and may not have considered the underlying theories and reasoning, let alone looked for an evidence based foundation for their beliefs, is what first alerted me that there was something wrong with a lot of the discussions on LJ. I have been prodding at the problem ever since and while a lot of my initial discomfort boils down to underlying political differences (social justice as present on LJ is rooted in left wing ideology with which I disagree) I think there are also some 'doing it by numbers' problems as well amongst some proponents, but it is by no means as common as it may appear on first sight. It is easy to assume people haven't thought when their thought process is hidden from you and they happen to have arrived at the same conclusion as other people.

Of course for someone who actually read her post, that may not be what she is talking about at all :D



My one thought on the class v. racism thing is that while racism may seem more important from the point of view of ethnic minorities, when upper or middle class white people raise the issue of classism it may be because from their position of double privilege they may genuinely be more aware of which prejudice is stronger and is actually causing other people more trouble. The person doing the kicking is often in a better position to know what motivated the kick. That said, when the argument is used solely to disarm an accusation of racism and has the subtext of denying racism entirely it is clearly a load of bollocks and should be treated as such.



I think I agree with what the historical romance link is saying about the importance of understanding historic thought processes and how they differed from our own. But I find her caring about that but not about champagne flutes etc. bizarre and irritating in its inconsistency. And I don't think one can set out a bunch of rules for other people about what historical fiction should or should not be. The degree of accuracy is always done on a decision by decision basis by the individual author. I have seen many very good stories that are essentially historical AUs - superficially set in a historical period but in fact constantly using modern references and in-jokes either for comedic effect or to make some serious point about modern society. I'm also a great believer in incompetent writing, especially amongst amateurs, and some people simply don't have the time for historical research, including research into modes of thinking, but can still tell a perfectly good and worthwhile story based on their own notions of what a historical period was like.

[sqbr]

I think she's less specifically talking about not having considered the underlying theories and more about polarisation and lazy thinking.

It is easy to assume people haven't thought when their thought process is hidden from you and they happen to have arrived at the same conclusion as other people.

*nods* I've done this myself. And have experienced it from the other side, which is always very annoying.

My one thought on the class v. racism thing is that while racism may seem more important from the point of view of ethnic minorities, when upper or middle class white people raise the issue of classism it may be because from their position of double privilege they may genuinely be more aware of which prejudice is stronger and is actually causing other people more trouble.

Ehhhh.... I think "which is worse?" is almost always an unhelpful and often meaningless question, regardless of what answer you come up with. They both exist, work in different ways, and in certain contexts one or the other is more significant. But it's always important to take both into account.

And I don't think one can set out a bunch of rules for other people about what historical fiction should or should not be.

That's very true. I personally am more interested in the social rather than superficial accuracy (to a point, I like a certain amount of unrealistic glossing over of attitudes too) but there's nothing wrong with people writing other sorts of period fiction.