sqbr: Torchwood spoilers for various episode numbers: Jack dies (torchwood spoilers)
Sean ([personal profile] sqbr) wrote2008-11-12 09:56 am

Annoying sexism and Joss Whedon

Reading through the latest Feminist sf carnival I hit some links which made me go "yes! That! Grr!". So I thought I would share the joy :)

Joss Whedon and feminist cookies Makes the point that one can (and should) acknowledge the effort of feminist writers like Joss Whedon..while still calling them on their mistakes. And oh, does he make some mistakes. Also, this comment captures some of the dodginess of the "Women corrupted by power" archetype.

On a similar subject Firefly: The Trouble With Saffron, on the fact that having a sweet innocent female victim of abuse who has pity taken on her turn out to be an evil sexy seductress is, uh, kind of creepy, especially given that it's done so often. I think there's a subtext to the "Turn a victimised group who 'everyone cares about' into the villain" thing which plays on the fact that deep down people don't want to sympathise with victims, and get annoyed at having to care about them, so get a real sense of catharsis from having them turn out to have been evil all along.

It got me thinking about the sheer absurd fetishisation of the "Woman who becomes evil automatically starts dressing an acting more sexily" thing. I'm not saying that women can't use sexuality to gain power, or that being sexy is inherently bad (or good) But it's just one way to be powerful, and it plays both into the "woman + sex=evil" trope and the "Women exist to serve men" trope (since she is titillating the male viewers rather than doing what makes sense for the character) It's way overdone in Supernatural, I'd love to see an evil female character who is genuinely gross (like, a zombie or something(*)) do the whole "creepy touching" thing (in order to deliberately creep the guy out, not in a failed attempt to be sexy), then it would be actually creepy rather than a thinly veiled excuse for men to despise the women they're attracted to. And why can't a woman be aggressively sexy and dressed in leather and not evil? Actually, I guess that was Xena. Yay Xena :) EDIT: Yeah, ok, so there's MANY counterexamples to this :)

EDIT: Oh hey, metafandom :) Man, I really didn't put much thought into this post, and now I have to justify my dodgy arguments with a fuzzy brain...All disclaimers are in operation!

(*)Except I hate zombies. Hmm.

[identity profile] ataxi.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 05:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I've always thought Joss Whedon made enough "mistakes" as a "feminist" that the phrase "feminists writers like Joss Whedon" doesn't really sit too well with me. But then I think I've mentioned my view of "feminism" traduced to "hot chicks who kick ass" before ...
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[personal profile] alias_sqbr 2008-11-13 04:02 am (UTC)(link)
I have a fairly broad definition of feminist: if someone self identifies as one, makes some effort to help the feminist cause, and isn't SUPER sexist, then I count them as one. Otherwise it all gets very dogmatic and "All true scotsman"y.

[identity profile] ataxi.livejournal.com 2008-11-14 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Sorry, I'm with the _allecto_ rant on this one. I think Whedon might as well qualify as "super sexist". Och aye!
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[personal profile] alias_sqbr 2008-11-15 07:53 am (UTC)(link)
Damn you nit-picky radical feminists, why can't you just learn to get along with the patriarchy like the rest of us? :)

[identity profile] ataxi.livejournal.com 2008-11-15 09:32 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not a terribly good feminist myself ... my ideological fervour seems to be dying away a little in all areas -- the whole "know enough to know that you don't know" side benefit of aging perhaps. But I'm fucked if I'll sit by and listen to Whedon get a free pass!
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[personal profile] alias_sqbr 2008-11-17 10:12 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, he DEFINITELY doesn't get a free pass, thus the angry ranting :) I guess I'm so hesitant to denounce anyone as "Not a real feminist" after watching so much "All true scotsmen" crap amongst various feminist subgroups.