What kind of space am I making here?

[sqbr]

Any time I come across an imbroglio/wank etc on the internet part of my reaction is to think "Could that be me?"(*). Since I tend to run a mile from conflict (if someone criticises me I tend to either apologise or "agree to disagree") a lot of the time the answer is "Maybe to begin with, but it wouldn't spiral out of control like that".

But something I am in danger of doing is staying silent when I should confront people, and by my silence implicitly supporting their actions. I've been thinking about the latest explosion with this whole Elizabeth Bear thing and comparing what she did to what I might do in such a situation (I don't have such a large friendslist, and I don't think anyone has ever posted anything critical about me that my friends might takes offense at, so I can't say for sure) But I have a headache and I'm not really up to it.

Luckily On safe space and responsibility is a post which says a lot of what I wanted to, so I shall link to it instead :)

I do mean to have a serious ponder about the downsides and of being "nice" and how responsible I am for the consequences of my own non-confrontationality especially as the moderator of the comments on this lj, but not today, I think. And now for a change, saying what I actually think was the last time I tried pondering it.

(*)though the post ven ve voke up, ve had zese wodies makes the very good point that it's pretty insulting to people being racially attacked to see this educational effect as the primary effect of racism imbroglios without acknowledging the pain they cause

Comments

Re: Spaces and choices

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

Um, that would be because kita and shay didn't make comments about Palestinians, Muslims or Arabs, they made some comments about Hamas - which is a *terrorist group*. In fact, they are a terrorist group whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. That is like saying that having isssues with the IRA is offensive to all Irish people and having issues with American white separatist groups is offensive to all Americans. Hell, it's like saying that Bush starting the Iraq war and staying there is horrible and indefensible is offensive to all Americans (most of whom *agree* that Bush starting the Iraq war and staying there is indefensible). They didn't make offensive and derogatory comments about Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians. In fact, they stated a basic fact - a fact that members of Hamas *agree with*; that they want to kill all of the Jews in Israel.

For you to say that kita and shay (and apparently me) having issues with a terrorist group that wants to destroy our *entire people* equals us hating and wanting to attack all Arabs/Muslims and Palestinians is disingenuous in the extreme.

ETA: Also, just to make it clear, if somebody Palestinian/Arab/Muslim had shown up and said this comment hurt them, I would have apologized for causing them pain. I would have explained that in this specific situation I was talking about a terrorist organization and that my comments were not meant to apply to an entire people as a whole - and for that and the pain I had caused (or *anybody* had caused), I was sorry.

Re: Spaces and choices

[zharradan.livejournal.com]

Well, I must say that I'm impressed with how quickly information disseminates around Livejournal. I disagree with your politics, and with your characterisation of what I said, but I'm not going to start a fight about it on sophie's lj and I don't think that you were being offensive in the first place anyway. I'm happy to accept that you don't intend to be hurtful, anyway.

Re: Spaces and choices

[alias_sqbr]

I made a reply on emily_shore's post saying how much I liked it. Presumably they saw my awesome comment and clicked on my username to check out my further awesomeness.

Re: Spaces and choices

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

Actually, I checked you out after our discussion in ithilana's journal and saw this post.

Re: Spaces and choices

[alias_sqbr]

Ah, fair enough. I forgot how far I've been spreading my awesomeness lately :D

Re: Spaces and choices

[alias_sqbr]

Just in case you didn't see my reply to zharradan, I totally agree with you: saying bad things about Hamas is not the same as saying bad things about Palestinians. People will sometimes do the latter under pretense of doing the former but the comment didn't read that way to me, especially since it was a simple statement of fact!

(And sorry I took a while to get back to you. My tactless mood got supplemented with a killer headache and I decided you guys would probably handle this better by yourselves till I was more awake :))

Re: Spaces and choices

[chopchica.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and I think that if somebody is going to take that simple statement of fact and infer me as a Jew having issues with a terrorist group whose main mission is to *kill my entire people* as a reason to believe that I hate all Arabs, Muslims and Palestians...honestly, in that kind of situation, there's never going to be a way for us to discuss it or to agree on absolutely anything.

Aside from that, I like the stuff you've said here in the post and in comments. I'm glad I followed you over to check it out!

Re: Spaces and choices

[alias_sqbr]

I'm glad you're glad and thanks for your thinky thoughts :)