An unfinished image

[sqbr]

So, a couple of days ago I made a genderswapped Ronon off Stargate, inspired by swirlygate. Today I did a genderswapped Teyla. You might note I haven't coloured it or anything: this is because, having finished it, I feel rather conflicted and weird about it. (I inked it without fiddling with the costume etc despite the obvious flaws for similar reasons. I realise he looks like a girl :/)

The inspiration for the picture was this image, which I came across while doing SGA fanart prompts and really annoyed me. It's so ridiculous and objectifying! So my intention was to illustrate that by going "See how ridiculous and objectifying this is on a guy!".

But I don't know, it kind of feels like I'm also contributing to the objectification of the actress. It skeeves me out for reasons I can't quite articulate. I could have done one of Teyla's more sensible, less objectifying outfits but then I would lose my original point. I don't know.

Plus of course, it's just not that good :)

Still, my point remains. Compare and contrast with this image of John Shepphard(*), and this of several cast members. I've googled quite a few reference shots of SGA characters for fanart and there definitely seems to a be correlation between being female and/or POC and how much skin is revealed and how deliberately sexified the images are. (Which doesn't stop fangirls from mostly being interested in the two white male leads but that's a whole 'nother subject) Seriously: google-image the names of male Stargate characters and look at the first two pages of results. Teal'c and Ronon are only ones who have topless shots.

nb had to get this out of my head but am pretty low on spoons, may be VERY slow responding to comments. Also I don't want to make it sound like I noticed this all on my own, I've read a lot of narky fan-meta off metafandom etc.

(*)Heh. I could have put him in Teyla's outfit and pose. That might have been better :)

Comments

[sami]

I like the idea of John in Teyla's outfit/pose.

I think what gets me about the group shot in particular is that everyone else is just... standing, in sort-of-in-character ways, except that Teyla, alone, is doing The Pose. One leg a little forward, shoulders back? That is *the* Looking Sexy pose. (To the extent that it's been described as such in a Robert freaking Heinlein novel. Which, ugh.)

Regarding only Ronon and Teal'c being pictured topless... Hmm. I think there's a strong element of racist-type sexualisation of them as non-white men, but there's also an element of them being, well, the only dudes who are really really buff.

[sqbr]

Teyla, alone, is doing The Pose

Exactly! The pose they have her doing in the reference shot is even worse imo, and noone else is posed like that in other publicity shots.

the only dudes who are really really buff

Well, but then you have to ask: why are the two buff strong-and-silent good-at-hitting-things characters played by POC? Ford wasn't like that and has no topless shots, but he didn't last long, and I have trouble imagining them casting, say, Jonas as anything but white.

[sami]

I don't know who Jonas is?

Ford lasted a whole season, I don't know, but he was kind of constructed as a promising kid figure (and man, in retrospect, how much do I hate that the one who got the messed-up addiction storyline is the black kid? At the time I was just distraught that it was Ford, because I liked him).

It's hard, because it's one of those things where I'm torn between dislike of trope, and love of individual characters. Teal'c is my favourite SG1 character. I adore him utterly and I think his actor is brilliant. (I've only watched half a season so far, so I haven't seen enough to remember actor names other than Richard Dean Anderson, who I already knew.) Ronon is awesome and I think Jason Momoa plays him brilliantly, and I love that Jason Momoa got a character where his hair works for him not against him.

So, the trope sucks, the implications suck, but Teal'c and Ronon are still totally awesome and the actors who play them rule.

But you can almost always make a case for a *single given* exercise of failtastic tropes...

[velithya]

I don't know who Jonas is?

A WHINY BITCH.

. . . I mean, uh-

[sami]

thanks that's helpful I MEAN WAIT NO IT TOTALLY ISN'T

[velithya]

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THAT JONAS IS LESS COOL AND LESS AWESOME THAN DANIEL.

[sami]

WHO ISN'T

I MEAN UH WELL *OBVIOUSLY* ISN'T EVERYONE?

[sqbr]

Jonas is Parker from Parker Lewis Can't Lose. And a physicist. So I liked him :D Unfortunately the season he was in was unbelievably bad, and he was sent in to replace Daniel, so he was doomed to being hated by fangirls everywhere.

Anyway, relevant to my point: he's a physicist from a 1940sish technological offworld society. Thus, white.

Oh yes, I like Teal'c heaps (haven't seen much of Ronon but he seems pretty cool) And yes, a single instance of a stereotypical character might be ok, but having that stereotype be the ONLY option for POC (or female etc) characters not so much.

[velithya]

excuse me I have to save that picture of Sheppard *does so*

Right. I think Teyla might look female in your picture because you have his top go up in the centre against the sternum - given men have mostly flatish sort of chests it might look more masculine to have it just cut straight across?

The thing I notice immediately about the cast shot you linked it that everyone is orange ;)

That photo of Teyla is pretty ridiculous! I am not a fan of the split in her skirt, it goes all the way up to here. :|

[ex_pippin880]

Wouldn't a splits-to-the-hips skirt be one of the more practical skirt for ass-kicking?

I'm not really sure when increased freedom of movement would be cancelled out by increased potential grab/catch/tangle surface area.

[velithya]

Normally, yes! But the split in her skirt isn't up the outside of the thigh, where it would be practical, it's halfway across her leg, meaning if she stands just a little bit differently she might as well not be wearing the skirt at all. I mean, if your are judging practicality for ass-kicking, she might as well just not wear a skirt at all!

[ex_pippin880]

Well hopefully her underclothing is not in teehee mode as well! idk, I don't think that if you specifically chose a four-split rather than a two-split skirt in which to kiss ass you would be horrifically worried about anyone seeing your Hello Replikitty panties.

[sqbr]

Right. I think Teyla might look female in your picture because you have his top go up in the centre against the sternum - given men have mostly flatish sort of chests it might look more masculine to have it just cut straight across?

I had it that way originally and it looked just as bad (well, to my eyes), but thanks for the suggestion. I'm still working on making my men look like Men :)

Yeah, it's not so much a skirt as a set of decorative ribbons :/

[aquaeri]

I just take this sort of thing for granted in mass media. Honestly, I think (white heterosexual) men are just subconsciously aware of how objectifying and dehumanising they are towards everyone who isn't a white straight male and they are horrified at what it would be like to be objectified and dehumanised themselves. They deserve to be put into sexy poses while revealing lots of flesh, frankly.

[sqbr]

Oh, absolutely. Though I think if I made a version of this pic with John Shepphard and posted it here I think the main reaction would be fangirls saying "That's hot" which isn't quite what I was going for :)

[aquaeri]

If you're looking for the heteronormative, patriarchal response this is not the place, no :-).

[sqbr]

Heh. "Oh noes, my subscribers are not a bunch of thoughtless mysogynist men!" :)