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There's been some discussion on tumblr of the culturally ignorant and thoughtless way white feminists often talk about anime/manga:
the original post, with my transcript, some following discussion.
This is something I've been thinking about for a while, I'm really uncomfortable with the combination of fetishisation/othering and erasure that's applied to Japanese culture in most anime and manga discussions I encounter, and would like to do better. So here are some thoughts on that. (Yeah, I know, ANOTHER WHITE FEMINIST POV /o\)
The obvious first step is to pay attention to what Japanese people are saying, specifically feminists. Unfortunately I haven't come across much Japanese feminist commentary in English, and I don't speak Japanese. I do know a few non-Japanese Asian feminists who discuss anime/manga but the subtleties of how their POV differs from mine often go over my head. If anyone has links to relevant commentary asides from the links above I would be very grateful!
I have made an effort to be supportive of Asian (and specifically Japanese) voices in local fandom but don't know many local Asian fans who want to run panels on anime and manga (and the one I do know just had a baby) I don't want to be all YOU'RE ASIAN COME TALK ABOUT ANIME YOU MUST KNOW ABOUT IT COS YOU'RE ASIAN, so all I've really done is complain when there was a panel about Writing Asia that was all white people.
Beyond that, I think there's a couple of angles:
1) I am a woman from a sexist society that devalues stories about women. Thus anime/manga about women can be really empowering for me regardless of the original context they were created in.
1b) I want to be able to help other women find stories they find empowering.
2) I am a white person from a majority white country which is ignorant and racist towards Japan and has a long history of forcing POC to assimilate. I thus have to be careful not to ignore or stereotype Japanese culture, since my ignorant/racist words will add to racism towards Japanese people.
3) I like poking at the stories I read and understanding what the writer was thinking, what the subtext is, what cultural references I'm missing etc.
4) I am a feminist, and want to support other women, especially those fighting sexism.
1) is a good reason to keep consuming anime and manga that "feels" feminist, even the stuff that is sexist in it's original context.
1b) Is a good reason to write about them and reccomend them to others, though I need to remember that other women may have a very different POV on what "feels" feminist to them.
2) and 3) are good reasons to educate myself about Japanese culture enough to have some idea of the context these works are created in, and to also be humble about the fact I'm unlikely to ever really get it. Rather than talking about a work being Objectively Feminist, I can say that I personally enjoyed it, that it objectively passes the Bechdel test, say, or lacks panty shots. I can mention what I know about the cultural context, but make it clear that I'm not well qualified to comment on what was going on in the author's head.
4) Is a good reason to consume and support works by Japanese women, especially those with what feels to me like a feminist message. I've been getting into Josei and shoujo and other works by women and where practical have paid for legal(*) copies. Beyond the intellectual knowledge that I'm supporting Japanese women I have been learning a lot about Japanese gender roles that I did not encounter in stories written by Japanese men. So this helps with 2 and 3 as well.
EDIT (see the comments): It's fine to do an "the author is dead" reading, but a lot of feminist analysis assumes that you can do a single Feminist Analyasis that judges the overall cultural effect and subtext of a work, and decides if the author was being overall sexist or overall feminist (any sexism being more subconscious subtext than deliberate message) If you're going to do that kind of analysis then I think you have to look at the original context of the work. And a lot of white feminists from the US/Australia etc don't.
Being a queer white anime/manga fan is similar, though there's less representation and it's harder to know which creators are queer. But given that Morishima Akiko is unlikely to ever get lisenced in English I should probably send her a thankyou note or something.
Being a disabled anime/manga fan of any ethnicity is just sad, the representation is terrible in almost exactly the same ways Western Media representation is terrible, and it's too depressing to make me want to poke much at the cultural nuances.
I am reasonably comfortable with my most recent anime panel, on Shoujo and Josei (anime and manga aimed at women and girls). These are Japanese marketing categories, so I wasn't relying on my own biased judgement, and there are various sexist forces discouraging these works from being marketed and respected in local anime/manga fandom. I did pick and choose within the categories, but I tried to make it clear that this was based on what I thought local fans would enjoy, not on some Objective Bar of Quality. And if people go off and buy these works then I've helped support Japanese women writing for other (Japanese) women, which seems like a good thing.
I've thought about doing a yuri panel but it's harder to walk that line. The yuri panel I went to at Waicon was full of stuff by and for guys. Which is not neccesarily bad but...idk. I waver between "do we really need another white person talking about anime" and "if I don't do it all we'll get is another panel on shonen (anime aimed at boys)".
So for now I'm going to stick with reviewing the stuff I've watched and trying to make it clear that I'm just talking about my own personal enjoyment. And I will continue to keep an ear out for more Japanese perspectives, even when they're uncomfortable. (Including reading some of the books linked above once I have a permanent address to get them sent to)
(*)Or illegal copies which still give the creator money, like on Hulu. Damn Australian lisencing issues.
the original post, with my transcript, some following discussion.
This is something I've been thinking about for a while, I'm really uncomfortable with the combination of fetishisation/othering and erasure that's applied to Japanese culture in most anime and manga discussions I encounter, and would like to do better. So here are some thoughts on that. (Yeah, I know, ANOTHER WHITE FEMINIST POV /o\)
The obvious first step is to pay attention to what Japanese people are saying, specifically feminists. Unfortunately I haven't come across much Japanese feminist commentary in English, and I don't speak Japanese. I do know a few non-Japanese Asian feminists who discuss anime/manga but the subtleties of how their POV differs from mine often go over my head. If anyone has links to relevant commentary asides from the links above I would be very grateful!
I have made an effort to be supportive of Asian (and specifically Japanese) voices in local fandom but don't know many local Asian fans who want to run panels on anime and manga (and the one I do know just had a baby) I don't want to be all YOU'RE ASIAN COME TALK ABOUT ANIME YOU MUST KNOW ABOUT IT COS YOU'RE ASIAN, so all I've really done is complain when there was a panel about Writing Asia that was all white people.
Beyond that, I think there's a couple of angles:
1) I am a woman from a sexist society that devalues stories about women. Thus anime/manga about women can be really empowering for me regardless of the original context they were created in.
1b) I want to be able to help other women find stories they find empowering.
2) I am a white person from a majority white country which is ignorant and racist towards Japan and has a long history of forcing POC to assimilate. I thus have to be careful not to ignore or stereotype Japanese culture, since my ignorant/racist words will add to racism towards Japanese people.
3) I like poking at the stories I read and understanding what the writer was thinking, what the subtext is, what cultural references I'm missing etc.
4) I am a feminist, and want to support other women, especially those fighting sexism.
1) is a good reason to keep consuming anime and manga that "feels" feminist, even the stuff that is sexist in it's original context.
1b) Is a good reason to write about them and reccomend them to others, though I need to remember that other women may have a very different POV on what "feels" feminist to them.
2) and 3) are good reasons to educate myself about Japanese culture enough to have some idea of the context these works are created in, and to also be humble about the fact I'm unlikely to ever really get it. Rather than talking about a work being Objectively Feminist, I can say that I personally enjoyed it, that it objectively passes the Bechdel test, say, or lacks panty shots. I can mention what I know about the cultural context, but make it clear that I'm not well qualified to comment on what was going on in the author's head.
4) Is a good reason to consume and support works by Japanese women, especially those with what feels to me like a feminist message. I've been getting into Josei and shoujo and other works by women and where practical have paid for legal(*) copies. Beyond the intellectual knowledge that I'm supporting Japanese women I have been learning a lot about Japanese gender roles that I did not encounter in stories written by Japanese men. So this helps with 2 and 3 as well.
EDIT (see the comments): It's fine to do an "the author is dead" reading, but a lot of feminist analysis assumes that you can do a single Feminist Analyasis that judges the overall cultural effect and subtext of a work, and decides if the author was being overall sexist or overall feminist (any sexism being more subconscious subtext than deliberate message) If you're going to do that kind of analysis then I think you have to look at the original context of the work. And a lot of white feminists from the US/Australia etc don't.
Being a queer white anime/manga fan is similar, though there's less representation and it's harder to know which creators are queer. But given that Morishima Akiko is unlikely to ever get lisenced in English I should probably send her a thankyou note or something.
Being a disabled anime/manga fan of any ethnicity is just sad, the representation is terrible in almost exactly the same ways Western Media representation is terrible, and it's too depressing to make me want to poke much at the cultural nuances.
I am reasonably comfortable with my most recent anime panel, on Shoujo and Josei (anime and manga aimed at women and girls). These are Japanese marketing categories, so I wasn't relying on my own biased judgement, and there are various sexist forces discouraging these works from being marketed and respected in local anime/manga fandom. I did pick and choose within the categories, but I tried to make it clear that this was based on what I thought local fans would enjoy, not on some Objective Bar of Quality. And if people go off and buy these works then I've helped support Japanese women writing for other (Japanese) women, which seems like a good thing.
I've thought about doing a yuri panel but it's harder to walk that line. The yuri panel I went to at Waicon was full of stuff by and for guys. Which is not neccesarily bad but...idk. I waver between "do we really need another white person talking about anime" and "if I don't do it all we'll get is another panel on shonen (anime aimed at boys)".
So for now I'm going to stick with reviewing the stuff I've watched and trying to make it clear that I'm just talking about my own personal enjoyment. And I will continue to keep an ear out for more Japanese perspectives, even when they're uncomfortable. (Including reading some of the books linked above once I have a permanent address to get them sent to)
(*)Or illegal copies which still give the creator money, like on Hulu. Damn Australian lisencing issues.
no subject
Sorry I took so long to reply to this, I'm having a little trouble parsing your words, and want to reply to what you're actually saying. So, I apologise if I'm misunderstanding you!
You seem to be expressing disagreement, but I think we actually mostly agree.
I agree the rest of the world is not America. Especially since I'm not American, I'm Australian, and have had Americans assume Australia works just like America. My main point is that non-Japanese people like me need to be careful not to intepret Japanese media by the standards of our own cultures. When an American (or Australian) says "Love Hina is feminist because it has lots of female characters" they are ignoring the context.
There's nothing wrong with men enjoying yuri. But yuri made by men often doesn't appeal to me, as a woman. It is designed more to appeal to male tastes and is more often creepy and sexist (though not all of it is). I usually prefer yuri made by women.
I agree that some tumblr headcanons rely too much on stereotypes.