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Some thoughts on age and unconventionality
Inspired by this post about aging:
Yeah, like...there are changes that tend to happen as you get older, and power dynamics to be aware of. But there isn’t this clear line between Being Young and Being Old, where you become a Grownup with the same tastes and needs (or lack thereof) as All Other Grownups.
The world is controlled by grownups...but by conventionally minded, privileged grownups.
The progression we're taught to expect is that young people get along with each other, but not with adults. And then they grow up into conventional adults and enjoy a world designed for and controlled by people like them.
But to the extent that this narrative applies at all, it's only to conventional, privileged people who fit comfortably into mainstream society.
An unconventional young person finds the world frustrating on two levels: the grownups in charge don’t understand or accept them, but neither do most people their own age. Such a young person finds pressure to be “normal” doubly crushing: not only do they find conventional grownup roles impossible, they also can’t fit into “proper” roles for people their age. The only way to find happiness is to accept themselves and find other like-minded misfits.
And such a young person doesn’t suddenly become a conventional adult who is happy to fit entirely into the mainstream. It often gets easier once they get older, partly because the world is designed for grownups (if not ones like us) but partly because we generally have more ability to control our own lives and avoid, say, toxic parents or stifling social environments. Forcing ourselves to be Normal is just as impossible and soul-destroying for misfit adults as it is for misfit teens.
Saying that unconventional grownups are pathetic and predatory, or even just boring, is damaging to us and to the young people who will grow into us. They need to see that they have a future, that they can become adults and still hold onto who they are, and what they need. Yeah, being unconventional or even disprivileged doesn’t make the power dynamics between older and younger people go away, and that’s something we need to be careful of, but being older doesn’t make all the other distinctions go away either.
Signed, a 39 year old queer, disabled, nerdy weirdo who hasn’t stopped being all those other things just because I’m pushing 40.
I think seeing people in their 20´s and 30´s as “old” is pretty unhealthy... Let people enjoy being young adults, stop making teenagers anxious that their life ends the minute they hit twenty, or adults feel like they can’t have fun anymore.
Yeah, like...there are changes that tend to happen as you get older, and power dynamics to be aware of. But there isn’t this clear line between Being Young and Being Old, where you become a Grownup with the same tastes and needs (or lack thereof) as All Other Grownups.
The world is controlled by grownups...but by conventionally minded, privileged grownups.
The progression we're taught to expect is that young people get along with each other, but not with adults. And then they grow up into conventional adults and enjoy a world designed for and controlled by people like them.
But to the extent that this narrative applies at all, it's only to conventional, privileged people who fit comfortably into mainstream society.
An unconventional young person finds the world frustrating on two levels: the grownups in charge don’t understand or accept them, but neither do most people their own age. Such a young person finds pressure to be “normal” doubly crushing: not only do they find conventional grownup roles impossible, they also can’t fit into “proper” roles for people their age. The only way to find happiness is to accept themselves and find other like-minded misfits.
And such a young person doesn’t suddenly become a conventional adult who is happy to fit entirely into the mainstream. It often gets easier once they get older, partly because the world is designed for grownups (if not ones like us) but partly because we generally have more ability to control our own lives and avoid, say, toxic parents or stifling social environments. Forcing ourselves to be Normal is just as impossible and soul-destroying for misfit adults as it is for misfit teens.
Saying that unconventional grownups are pathetic and predatory, or even just boring, is damaging to us and to the young people who will grow into us. They need to see that they have a future, that they can become adults and still hold onto who they are, and what they need. Yeah, being unconventional or even disprivileged doesn’t make the power dynamics between older and younger people go away, and that’s something we need to be careful of, but being older doesn’t make all the other distinctions go away either.
Signed, a 39 year old queer, disabled, nerdy weirdo who hasn’t stopped being all those other things just because I’m pushing 40.
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And it's pretty weird because the world is, by and large, not controlled by even the most normative 20-somethings and 30-somethings. There are power dynamics at play, but it's a bit weird that the focus falls so much on the least powerful adults in terms of both normativity and age.
Also, youth is ... not privileged, but there's certainly a widespread idea that women in particular are at their most worthwhile (and sometimes only worthwhile) when they're young, and should quietly recede into the background as they age, which deeply complicates power relations in fandom.
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Truth.
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Yeah, I... get so frustrated with the low bar for ageism set on places like Tumblr, and how they often spring out of similar places that anti rhetoric springs, or alternatively, have their basis in deeply flawed moral panic which is meant to be polarising and divisive.
It's also just - the are predators who are young, there are predators who will only be predators while they're young (emotional abuse is very easy for a lot of people to engage in until they literally learn better behaviour), and of course there are older predators, but you're more likely to find more grounded advice from older people re: things like toxic relationships and friendships from people with lived experience. This whole 'the predators are in one camp and we're in the other' is terrifying, that will do direct damage.
I remember the relief I felt when I started - even as a 13 yo - meeting adults who seemed a bit weirder, like me. Or unconventional. And then from relief, came community (a mixed community, people of all ages! Though granted not many over the age of 50). And then out of that, came friendship, and all the messy things friendship might entail (including toxic friendships, arguments and more, but I was having them with my fellow youngster, even as I had them as a 17 yo with like a 45 yo pagan woman from Wales who just...didn't know any better - the most valuable less I learned was that there are very mature and grounded people in their teens and twenties, and there will be deplorably miserable immature 40 and 50 yos, and therefore - age isn't a true marker of maturity, and it's okay to stand up to adults who treat you badly; something I knew in theory, but appreciated learning in practice).
Not everyone follows the same path, sure, and I have always been someone who has generally gotten along better with older people, when I was a younger person - I'm glad I don't see that rhetoric everywhere, at least.
Anyway, I'm rambling but basically, yes I agree and have a lot of incoherent thoughts about it lol.
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Yeah :/
It's also just - the are predators who are young, there are predators who will only be predators while they're young (emotional abuse is very easy for a lot of people to engage in until they literally learn better behaviour), and of course there are older predators, but you're more likely to find more grounded advice from older people re: things like toxic relationships and friendships from people with lived experience. This whole 'the predators are in one camp and we're in the other' is terrifying, that will do direct damage.
Right! It even makes things easier for older predators, who can paint themselves as The Good Grownups, without any actual good grownups around as a counterexample.
And yes, community is so valuable, and there's so much to be gained from communities that cover a wide variety of ages. I actually didn't tend to get along well with older people, but it's a skill I learned in fandom, and one I'm glad of.