Torchwood even less original than I thought

[sqbr]

And I didn't think it was that original. (nb I am feeling pretty zonked, but if I don't write this now I'll forget)

EDIT: While we're talking theft of lines, from supernatural ep "Something Wicked" (paraphrase)
Dean: Has this thing struck before?
Sam: Yes, in Ogdenville, North Haverbrook...



Note that I watched Torchwood first, but it was made later.

So the Torchwood episode "Countrycide" is about a mysterious village where people go missing every ten years or so. It turns out the villagers are in cahoots to catch and eat people. The main characters are caught and freaked out by the wierdos who run the place, but eventually escape
I thought it was ok. A scene which didn't really grab me but some people like is this (5:10 in this video):
Man: *expresses concern*
Woman: I have to know. (To head cannibal) Why did you do it?
Cannibal: *creepy expression* Because it made me happy
Woman: *draws back in horror*

(Also, this video is an amusing synopsis :))

I then watched the Supernatural episode "Scarecrow" which has a very similar beginning (people vanishing in a small village every ten years or so) and it turns out there's a conspiracy amongst the villagers, but it's a supernatural one. The end is quite different.

This reminded me of the Torchwood episode, but I decided it was forgivable since it wasn't that similar.

Just now I watched the Supernatural episode "The Benders". It's about a town where people vanish at a slow but steady rate, and it tuns out there's a local family who catch people and turn them into hunting trophies. The main characters are caught and freaked out by the wierdo hicks who run the place but eventually escape. The "crazed psychos chasing people through dark trees" and "Wait, there's nothing supernatural, it's just people?" scenes were quite similar to "Countrycide" but I guess it wasn't TOO similar.

But at the end you have this line (4:44 in this video)
Man: *expresses concern*
Woman: (to head hunter) Just tell me why
Hunter: *creepy expression* Because it's fun!
Woman: *draws back in horror*

...and then she shoots him, because she's not a main character we have to remain sympathetic to (I get the feeling Supernatural's not big with the long-term sympathetic female characters)

I guess I shouldn't be surprised after all the wholesale lifting of ideas and plots from Angel and Buffy, but there you go. Or am I being overly picky? The scenes certainly aren't quite as similar as I remembered, now that I watch them side by side.

Comments

[velithya]

As a Supernatural fan, watching Countrycide when it came out made me go "I FEEL LIKE I HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE" because it was, you know, kind of the same episode. (I think Supernatural did it better, although I may be biased).

And actually, fandom really likes her. A lot better than some of its other, more long-term female characters.

[tevriel.livejournal.com]

Supernatural fandom, though, is not Down on people who kill the crazy evil people. I'm not sure how Torchwood fandom would have taken it, really. We like our characters strong, male and female...

Edit: Also, yeah, Supernatural did it better. Countrycide is, imo, a really crap episode of Torchwood, while The Benders is a decent episode of Supernatural except for one line.

*is not remotely surprised to see you guys are the first two people to comment*

[alias_sqbr]

I think the idea loses impact on the second viewing either way, but yeah the Supernatural one was a bit better (In my opinion Supernatural > Torchwood in general, in terms of quality)

Supernatural fandom, though, is not Down on people who kill the crazy evil people

Hmm, ok. I tend to assume any sort of cold blooded killing of someone who has been captured and offers no future threat would be considered a bad thing under any circumstances (though understandable in some cases, like hers)

Which is not to say I'd expect people to dislike the character, just that it's not something I would expect a long running sympathetic character on a mainstream tv show to do (Giles killing Ben was a pretty big deal, and he was a future threat).

Of course, I also wouldn't tend to expect a long running sympathetic character on a mainstream tv show to have on-screen gay sex either, so I guess my expectations may be out of line with modern tv :D

Re: *is not remotely surprised to see you guys are the first two people to comment*

[tevriel.livejournal.com]

To a certain extent, yeah, that's not how it works, really. Like, even on a show as violent as Supernatural, the boys don't kill humans, even if they kinda deserve it. (I don't want to spoil you for later seasons, here, so I won't go into any more depth on this point and the ramifications of who killed who in various situations.) Having a once-off character kill a human lets the human get killed in a less lingering way.

Also, of course you got the Tevriels jumping in on this one. Who else do you know who fangirls both Supernatural and Captain Jack Torchwood as hard as we do? ;)

Re: *is not remotely surprised to see you guys are the first two people to comment*

[alias_sqbr]

Also, of course you got the Tevriels jumping in on this one. Who else do you know who fangirls both Supernatural and Captain Jack Torchwood as hard as we do? ;)

Noone else come to mind :)

[kadeton.livejournal.com]

In my opinion Supernatural > Torchwood in general, in terms of quality

My immediate reaction to this was "That's rubbish, Supernatural is one of the worst TV shows ever made", but then I realised that the only reason I don't put Torchwood in the same category is that most of the characters have British accents instead of American. I'll settle for "Supernatural and Torchwood are roughly equally terrible."

[alias_sqbr]

The subconsCious anglophilia resulting from an australian upbringing raises it's ugly head! :)

[violetsquirrel.livejournal.com]

Really, I don't think it's such an original idea that it had to be stolen from anywhere... the whole "creepy village where everyone's complicit in doing really bad stuff, oh look how dark humanity can be just because it wants to be" thing isn't exactly new or anything.

But yeah, it's a kind of crap episode of Torchwood (then again most of the first season is XD).

[alias_sqbr]

The overall idea, maybe, but those particular lines are really similar. And some of the feel was quite similar too, once you translate it to welsh :)

But yeah, it's a kind of crap episode of Torchwood (then again most of the first season is XD)

No argument here! Though it had it's own special charm...

[violetsquirrel.livejournal.com]

Fair enough XD I don't remember the Supernatural episode enough (if I even saw it, I didn't see every episode in the season...)

I wasn't in the best frame of mind for watching Torchwood, since I watched most of s3 and then stopped after Blink to watch it so I'd be watching things in the right order. So I spent the whole series thinking I'd far rather be watching Dr Who. Mind you, the second season was actually good enough to make me want to watch it all despite it being time not spent watching Who...

[alias_sqbr]

Yeah, I watched season one under similar circumstances, only I was waiting to get my hands on Dr Who season 2.

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

If it helps, I'm fairly sure I've seen that movie(s) and read that novel and read that short story.

:D

Also I'm not sure Torchwood or Supernatural sells itself on the plot, original or otherwise.

[tevriel.livejournal.com]

Supernatural totally sells itself on the plot, just not really the monster-of-the-week plots. The overarching metaplot is the one that tends to have fandom flailing and making allcaps posts at each other.

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

Right, I have to admit I only saw most of season one, and have heard it did gain more plot then that, but yeah there wasn't a lot in what I did see.

That doesn't mean it wasn't fun, just not heavy on the plot side and anything that did involve plot seemed to be directly ripped off from some other horror show (though not helped by watching at least some of it with Kadeton, who apparently prefers plot and originality or something over cute guys).

Anyway, I was just making an easy jab at the shows, because well, I watch one of them regularly, I just don't think either is worth taking too seriously (and I suspect alias_sqbr has realised this :P)

Arg, I think I'm too tired to be posting replies.

[penchaft.livejournal.com]

Chris is a better person than you!

I can compartmentalise!

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

So he keeps telling me*. :P

I like plot and originality and good writing sometimes. I just don't like it to interfere too much with my drooling. Seperate shows seperate functions. Sides I don't _watch_ Supernatural anymore.

*Not quite true, he just keeps telling me how awesome he is, and most of the time I'm in agreement (unless he's asking me to find something lost around the house).

Re: I can compartmentalise!

[penchaft.livejournal.com]

Well he DID fix the bike, so I guess you can't piss him off too much. ;)

I much prefer good writing. If the Plot in a show evaporates, leaving only the Pretty, I will stop watching it (see: Lost (Sawyer was my Pretty)).

Unless, I don't know, it was The Pretty-Haired Waistcoat-Wearing Accordion-Playing Boy Fights Superheroes In Ancient Ruins Show. *____*

Re: I can compartmentalise!

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

*laughs*

And fair enough. I suppose I'm often in a position where I'm drunk or otherwise worn out and well, I don't always like having to think :(

Enough plot so it makes sense is usually okay though.

Re: I can compartmentalise!

[http://users.livejournal.com/drayke_/]

Unless, I don't know, it was The Pretty-Haired Waistcoat-Wearing Accordion-Playing Boy Fights Superheroes In Ancient Ruins Show. *____*

I've got a couple of eps of this. There wasn't really much plot to begin with and I just got bored so I stopped getting it. I heard he fights Supervillains now.

Re: I can compartmentalise!

[penchaft.livejournal.com]

Well, they're not really villains. They've been brainwashed... I think. It's starting to look like (SPOILERS) Dashing Kilted Banjo Man is controlling them instead of Sir Scarred But Smouldering Shirtless Saxophone, and I think the Thirty Xanatos Pile Up (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThirtyXanatosPileUp) is starting to fray a bit at the edges.

Next week's apparently the introduction of Naked Ukulele Lesbian, though, so it looks like some shark jumping might be in the show's future. =(

[alias_sqbr]

Yes, the monsters of the week of the individual episodes are pretty straightforwardly ripped-from-urban legend, the fact they're rarely subverted in any sort of interesting way is one of the main annoyances of the show for me (compared to say Buffy)

But Cam has told me about the story arcs from later on, and those are original and interesting.

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

You could argue that nothing is original on tv... there is an X-Files ep about a canabalistic small country town where people disappear from. They also raise chickens which they feed with ground up other chickens.

[alias_sqbr]

It wasn't so much the plot per se as the way it was done.

But yes, there's a LOT of recycling of plot elements in similar tv shows. Remember when Swancon did that "Groundhog day episodes from various sf shows" thing? :)

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

I quite possibly wasn't at that Swancon. They all kinda blur together now...

[alias_sqbr]

Heh, they do at that :)

[dabear.livejournal.com]

That was cool. Hilarious to put them all next to each other and see the variations/similarities. Also, the Stargate one is just really good...

[alias_sqbr]

I was too sleepy to go, but the idea was awesome :)