sqbr | IBARW: Why blog about racism?

Current Mood: thoughtful

Entry tags:

IBARW: Why blog about racism?

So, one of the standards I try to hold myself to is to be open to criticism and other points of view. Two criticisms I've had people make of me (directly and indirectly) here and there are that
(a)This whole blogging about racism and feminism etc is pointless or otherwise a bad idea
(b)People who disagree with me (or don't feel as strongly) on these or related issues find this lj unwelcoming/intimidating

(EDIT: I'm paraphrasing, and I think I've accidentally created straw-critics who you are all defending me from when the actual things people said really weren't that bad, mostly. My plan for a "nice simple links post instead of a tricky thinky real post about race" seem to have been less than successful...)

Now I'm still feeling a bit too dumb to write a proper post on either issue, but looking through

ibarw I came accross three posts which go into the first question really well:

rilina: IBARW: Why I'm participating
coffeeandink: Why I participate in IBARW
The Angry Black Woman: Doing Something About Racism

And to be flip for a moment: Me getting all excited about a particular topic, ranting about it continuously for a few months/years until I get my head around it/find a new obsession (and then intermittently from then on) is in general part of the whole reason I got a blog(*). I'm not sure I see how racism is any worse than fanfiction meta or wire crochet :P

But I do understand that just because you may not write about this stuff on your blog doesn't mean you don't care, the same way that I still cared about it before I started posting about it so much, and will still care if I decide to tone it down. Heck, it's not like I stopped making wire crochet...(EDIT: Also, you're under no obligation to read all my posts. I'll admit now, I skim over anything you guys post resembling a travelogue, my brain just refuses to process them)

The second criticism is something I'm still pondering how to articulate my response to, since it's a complex issue, and I know how that sort of thing can feel (I spent several years too intimidated to go to Gynaecon since I had ambivalent feelings about feminism(**)) I have this big metaphor about how I want to behave the way I would like my vegetarian/vegan friends to behave towards me, but it's going to take a little more thought.

(*) Also with racism (but not so much sexism etc, for various reasons), I've spent much of my life avoiding speaking up a lot of the time because it was all too difficult and I felt underqualified, so I have a lot of repressed annoyance to work through.
(**)No offense to the people who run Gynaecon, btw, since you were all very welcoming when I did come, and I think the problem was mostly if not all in my head.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

blogging on topics like feminism, racism, any ism... doesn't seem the least bit intimidating unless it's rabid opinionated ranting, and from what I've read you're probably as far from that as you can get!

Impartial observer here :P

Though - I have to say... Gynaecon sounds HORRIBLY intimidating o..0
Sure it isn't, but that's a heck of a name. Ew.

Different people are intimidated in different ways (and vice vera for intimidatingness: I can be quite forceful and overbearing in my own way), it's very subjective. I think expressing an opinion on a contoversial subject is always going to make some people with a different opinion on that issue a bit uncomfortable, the issue is balancing that with the need for self sexpression etc.

Though - I have to say... Gynaecon sounds HORRIBLY intimidating o..0
Sure it isn't, but that's a heck of a name. Ew.

Heh. I can see that, though I don't remember the name really putting me off in and of itself. Names are funny like that, I remember the eternal arguments when I was on the Brights Forum, as people would go on about how they'd join if the name was only changed to something more inviting like *blah*, and then 100 people would respond saying "But that's even more uninviting!" :)

I'm not sure I see how racism is any worse than fanfiction meta or wire crochet :P

Or recumbent trikes for that matter. Whistles and looks innocent.

I may not read all of the posts you put up on the subject, or click through the links, but it is good for me to be reminded about these subjects occasionally so you won't ever hear complaints from me on this subject.

I'm not sure I see how racism is any worse than fanfiction meta or wire crochet

Heh, you know, out of context that line looks kinda skeevy...

I must admit, I do not always read all the way through your posts about bikes either. And that's ok :) (Well, I hope it's ok. Because I'm really not that interested in bikes..)

*adds a bit to post that I understand that people will not always feel like reading my posts, because it's an important point*

Actually I find wire Crochet very intimidating.

Well, then just be glad you didn't know me three or four years ago :D

I'm ok with the regular kind, but wire crochet has sharp pointy ends. You gotta watch out for that.

I'd disagree, but I really suck at dealing with the ends. I am in fact being poked by the necklace I'm wearing RIGHT NOW *is intimidating*

*is intimedated*

The only problem I ever had going to gynaecon was when one person who was at that swancon had an issue with my current relationship and would get up and storm out of any room I and my partner walked into for pretty much the whole convention. I went to a few of the gynaecon things that looked interesting but felt awkward because she would get up and leave.

I have more of an issue going to places that are "women only" or even "women born women only" which I have a moral issue with.

Can you explain the how your vegan friends behave towards you is a metaphor regarding feminism?

(and often I don't read the fanfic type posts of my friends. I think that's the joy of the friend list you can read what you feel like and scan over the rest)

EDIT:
The only problem I ever had going to gynaecon was when one person who was at that swancon had an issue with my current relationship and would get up and storm out of any room I and my partner walked into for pretty much the whole convention. I went to a few of the gynaecon things that looked interesting but felt awkward because she would get up and leave.

Yeah, that's a pretty good reason for feeling awkward!

-----------

Can you explain the how your vegan friends behave towards you is a metaphor regarding feminism?

This is what I get for saying "Here is a thing I'm not saying" isn't it? :)

Two reasons it's a crappy metaphor:
1) I have a much higher opinion of vegenism etc than some of your guys have of feminism/anti-racism
2) Veganism etc is simply about what you do while many people have a problem with the label of feminism, or the feminist movement, without having any problems with the principles.

But that said, without going into it in depth (for me :)): I am in favour of animal rights in principle, but not a vegan. To my vegan friends this is a Bad Thing, but you guys still (afaict!) accept me commenting on your vegan-themed posts as long as I'm not all "But meat is so tasty!". You personally are not such a good example since your blog is specifically not about debating the merits of veganism (we use our blogs in different ways), but certainly there have been times when you've made specific statements I disagreed with (for reasons beyond just being a non-vegan, but still related to that POV) and you seemed ok with me voicing a different POV as long as I was respectful of your lj as a pro-vegan space.

Similarly, I would say that most if not all the people on my friendslist are in favour of women's rights in principle, but some are anti-feminist (in terms of the idea, not just the term/movement). I tend to see this as a Bad Thing, but am still ok with people I know have those opinions commenting on my feminist themed posts as long as they're not all "But women suck!". (The specifics of what sort of disagreement I'm ok with is one thing I'm still thinking about)

Hm, still not sure that came out right.

This is what I get for saying "Here is a thing I'm not saying" isn't it? :)

Hehe, yup.

Veganism etc is simply about what you do while many people have a problem with the label of feminism, or the feminist movement, without having any problems with the principles.

Not quite. The vegan movement is more than just "hey we don't use animal products". Every vegan I've met, both online and IRL has had strong philosphical reasons behind it such as animal rights, animal welfare (which are different movements), environmentalism, personal spirituality etc Veganism just the practical application of such ideologies, but most vegans have a belief system behind it. (If that makes sense?)

you seemed ok with me voicing a different POV as long as I was respectful of your lj as a pro-vegan space

I'm usually happy to debate any vegan topic on my lj if I have left comments open- I just don't want the vegan bashing you find elseware there. Sometimes I don't want to discuss something so I turn off the comments or screen them. But you are always polite and I always feel that you are interested in whatever my comments are on an issue and why our views differ. I've often found myself in debate with people who are really just looking to put vegans down or make themselves feel less guilty of what they do. They usually ask the questions like "would you eat meat if you were stuck on a desert island" and "if your house was in fire and you could only save your baby and your cat which would you pick". They aren't actually interested in discussion and it's not something I want to spend my lj on. People, such as yourself, are more than welcome to comment and debate though because you are open minded.

*slaps forehead* Yes, I was very unclear, sorry.

What I meant was: while people aren't going to choose a lifestyle like veganism without some sort of principle, veganism is the end result, not the principle, and people may become vegan for very different reasons (this is even more true of vegetarianism, afaict, ie there's people who do it just for their health) I'm pretty sure you don't have people saying "Well, I don't eat animal products, but I'm not vegan becuase I don't like the vegan movement", though I assume there are some people who say "I'm vegan, but I don't like the vegan movement" (because there's always non-conformists in every group :))

Feminism, on the other hand, is the principle, and can lead to quite different end results (the whole pro/anti porn dichotomy, for example) There are lots of people who agree with the principles of feminism who don't identify as feminists for various reasons, ie if they don't like the feminist movement. Also, the definition of feminism is much murker and more subjective.

I don't mind people who have a problem with feminism etc commenting here (if they're polite and on topic etc. Such as yourself :)), but I agree that attacks on me personally for my opinions are out (Not that I can recall that ever happening here. But if it did!)

I'm pretty sure you don't have people saying "Well, I don't eat animal products, but I'm not vegan becuase I don't like the vegan movement"

Actually there are people out there who do follow that. But it is often less about other vegans and more about the way non-vegans react to people who say they are vegan. It's even more true within the vegetarian community as well.

Huh. And see, that's what I get for making generalisations.

it is a fair assumption though and i can see where you are coming from.

(a)This whole blogging about racism and feminism etc is pointless or otherwise a bad idea
(b)People who disagree with me (or don't feel as strongly) on these or related issues find this lj unwelcoming/intimidating

My opinion on this (if you want it) is that since it's your blog, you can post whatever you want. People are not obliged to read posts they don't like. You're not creating a happy space for people to eat muffins in!

Of course, if you are, count me in for any baked goods with chocolate chips in.

Yes, I'm feeling confrontational - how did you guess...

OMG how can you mention muffins when you KNOW I have an INTOLERANCE TO BUTTER?!!???!!! AND chocolate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*cough*

So, no, not creating a happy space for people to eat muffins in, unless they're made with dairy-free margarine and like fruit or something :)

I will say that I think I've made the criticism I was getting more negative than it was. Sigh, I thought "I'm feeling tactless, so I won't write a real post for IBARW, I'll just post some links", but still managed to do so in an ambiguous tactless way...

Your LJ, your rules, your interests. I would probably only start complaining if you were to, say, post fanfic without an lj-cut.

I read most of your *ism posts - I like reading the discussions that go on in the comments, too! They're interesting things to read about rather thank think about, for me.

Would it be ok if it was just a drabble? Or would that still scar your delicate brain? :)

(nb: I have no immediate plans to post any drabbles. But you Never Know)

It would make me pretty angry, like when some of my ex-friends tried to trick me into reading fanfiction. =(

YOU KNOW MY WEAKNESS NOW OH SHI-

sigh.

*amuses self with the concept of "fic-rolling'*

Never gonna give in to long-held-desires, never gonna do what always feels right but oh so wrong, never gonna uuuuuse purple prose and indulge you

No, no, to be a fic-roll it has to be fic. Like so:

Sheppard's going to pick Cho up
Take her out to Hogsmead town
Buy her the best dinner around
and dessert too

(Though, strictly speaking, I guess this is a filk-roll)

I think the abyss is staring back into you!

I'm not so much staring into it as plummeting...

*sound of putting pride quietly aside*

Squee! An Astley ~~drabble~~ fic roll thingy! Bringing Smash Hits and fanfic together at last.

Like Cho and Sheppard, they've been a too-long neglected OTP, and it makes me ~~deeply ashamed~~ proud to be the one to bring together :)

(Oh yeah and I am interested in your feminism/anti-racism posts!)

But are you interested in my drabbles?

(I guess it's a bit late to ask now :D)

I'm Trent by the way!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

IBARW: Why blog about racism?

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

(Okay so it sounded better in my head okay)

LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO

Re: LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO

Re: LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO

Re: LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO

Re: LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO

no subject

no subject

no subject