Project Steve

[sqbr]

1000 scientists called Steve affirming the validity of the theory of evolution. EDIT via Hoyden about Town

I will now rant because I am feeling ranty.

1) There are times when an non-expert in a given subject disagrees with an expert, and the non-expert is right. Sometimes even the consensus of experts is wrong. But if you can't find any expert who agrees with you? You are almost certainly wrong on such a deep level there's no chance you could be right.

Any time creationists trot out "scientists" who favour creationism, their background is in mechanical engineering or some such. Having done a Phd in science, there is such a huge gap in understanding between people who have a Phd in that subject and those who don't (whether or not they're an expert in something else) that the latter are almost never in a position to argue with them.

2) I do not have a Phd or any tertiary training in biology. I find the subject interesting, but don't understand it very deeply. I think people like me should avoid biological arguments about creationism, we'll just make mistakes and bring the side down. It also plays into the idea that science is a democracy and every opinion is equal. My response to such arguments is to say "Find me a convincing argument by a creationist with a Phd in biology and maybe I'll listen".

3) This is not a science vs religion thing. It's a science vs anti-science thing, with religious people on both sides. Heck, there are anti-science atheists (see Soviet Russia) I think atheist organisations should get involved to the extent that it's also a separation-of-church-and-state thing, but the argument should, again, be "Our society trusts the consensus of scientists to decide school curriculum, and scientists say evolution is right", it's not our job to get into the biology of it.

Individual non-bioloigists (atheist or not) who want to take the workload off biologists by helping explain/defend evolution to creationists can do so, but I don't think atheist organisations should encourage it in an official capacity.

EDIT 3b) If your religious faith says that creationism is true, I actually don't have a problem with that. You can believe it, and you can teach it in your churches etc. But the logical response to scientific opinion disagreeing with your faith is to either shrug and say "Well, science changes, you'll realise we're right in the end" or become a scientist and prove them wrong scientifically. It is not to use bad science and pretend it's good science. That does a disservice to both science and religion.

Opinion 3 caused me a certain amount of strife on the Brights forum.

Comments

[alias_sqbr]

After all, religious belief, church attendance and creationism are on the downswing at the same time as firm belief in the Theory of Evolution is on the downswing

Yes, I find that really interesting, and it does put paid to simplistic, zero-sum ideas about a religion vs atheism "war".

To suggest that in the absence of absolute certainties everything has equal value in the marketplace of ideas is pernicious

And absurd! It's not like they actually want schools teaching ALL the alternative ideas, just their ones.

[ataxi.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. It's very dishonest. Of course, it must be hard when you fervently believe something and have to come up against the establishment stonewall:

"Mainstream science is right."
"But but ..."
"MAINSTREAM SCIENCE IS RIGHT!"
"*sigh*"

To riff on Voltaire: "I disagree with what they have to say, but I can sympathise with their desire to be heard."

I wonder whether the tank-thinkers over at the Discovery Institute imagine, in their sillier moments, that they're terribly clever.

[alias_sqbr]

I am for some reason reminded of the people I have to smack down at webcomics who are convinced that if they post their comic often enough they will suddenly become popular. Everyone wants to be heard, but not everyone is worth listening to :)