EDIT: I've moved this poll onto the end of the original poll to keep things simpler. All that's left here is an interesting conversation in the comments :)
I've always been a little dubious about sexual harassment complaints, without knowing more about both sides of the situation.
Sexual Harassment is like art, IMO.
How much of it is art because the creator said it was art / created it to be art, and how much of it is art because the viewer sees it as art/artistic? Does one person thinking it is art make it more, or less as art to an unopinioned person? What about to the creator? What about "found" art, with no creator? Is that truly art? Even if it wasn't art, can it become art? Now for the big one: does it matter if it is?
*raises eyebrows* *makes possibly unwarranted assumption that you've never been sexually harassed*
Uh, maybe in some cases, and as with anything there's always a grey area, but not much more than with any other crime. I mean it's not always easy to tell the difference between an even fight and physical assault, but if some random guy comes up and stabs you for no reason it's not really "in the eye of the beholder".
You could make an argument as to the difference between an active harrassment and a more passive one. For example; it is not conceivably possible to "accidentally" grope someone, or make remarks about their breast size, or masturbate at them. On the other hand, some oligoneuronal twit who puts up a calender at work may simply have not considered that a female collegue might not appreciate it. (Or course, they may have done it deliberately to elicit a response or try to put them down).
As was commented before, a lot of this behaviour is simply viewed as being "normal", and a background part of society. A few people have commented on the way that they either didn't feel that they could raise riot over it, or were actively discouraged from doing so. Presumbly because that might make the offenders feel uncomfortable...?
So yeah; a lot of areas where sexual harrassment is pretty blindingly obvious, and indeed, many where it is clearly sexual assault. The grey areas are harder to predict, I suspect. I know that those police I've asked about the topic have had a jaundiced view of the two defences "s/he wanted me to" and "I didn't mean it like that".
Side comment; it was remarkable just how fast that calender disappeared after I commented that we should put up one of the "nekkid man-toy" variety as well. I don't harrass too easily; something about my height, I think.
Mm. I think a lot of the time it gets dismissed as just that one particular person being a prat in a way that could be seen as kind of sexual rather than Sexual Harassment TM. And this is true of more direct stuff too: the line between sexual harassment and an incompetent come-on isn't that obvious, imo. And of course a lot of the time the perpetrator isn't thinking in a really self aware deliberate way about their actions, and justifies it to themselves as reasonable behaviour, so their "innocent act" is sincere.
The counterargument to "this is normal" is "Yes, and that's just a sign of how messed up our society is." :)
This rather reminds me of general discussions I've seen about sexism, racism etc. Very few people wake up and go "Yes, today I will be racist" but they do it anyway...
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no subject
Sexual Harassment is like art, IMO.
How much of it is art because the creator said it was art / created it to be art, and how much of it is art because the viewer sees it as art/artistic? Does one person thinking it is art make it more, or less as art to an unopinioned person? What about to the creator? What about "found" art, with no creator? Is that truly art? Even if it wasn't art, can it become art? Now for the big one: does it matter if it is?
(I do hope my analogy is understood)
no subject
no subject
*makes possibly unwarranted assumption that you've never been sexually harassed*
Uh, maybe in some cases, and as with anything there's always a grey area, but not much more than with any other crime. I mean it's not always easy to tell the difference between an even fight and physical assault, but if some random guy comes up and stabs you for no reason it's not really "in the eye of the beholder".
no subject
You could make an argument as to the difference between an active harrassment and a more passive one. For example; it is not conceivably possible to "accidentally" grope someone, or make remarks about their breast size, or masturbate at them. On the other hand, some oligoneuronal twit who puts up a calender at work may simply have not considered that a female collegue might not appreciate it. (Or course, they may have done it deliberately to elicit a response or try to put them down).
As was commented before, a lot of this behaviour is simply viewed as being "normal", and a background part of society. A few people have commented on the way that they either didn't feel that they could raise riot over it, or were actively discouraged from doing so. Presumbly because that might make the offenders feel uncomfortable...?
So yeah; a lot of areas where sexual harrassment is pretty blindingly obvious, and indeed, many where it is clearly sexual assault. The grey areas are harder to predict, I suspect. I know that those police I've asked about the topic have had a jaundiced view of the two defences "s/he wanted me to" and "I didn't mean it like that".
no subject
no subject
The counterargument to "this is normal" is "Yes, and that's just a sign of how messed up our society is." :)
This rather reminds me of general discussions I've seen about sexism, racism etc. Very few people wake up and go "Yes, today I will be racist" but they do it anyway...