Today, the zoo...

[sqbr]

I love the tone of this article: Chimp planned rock attacks on zoo visitors.

Aww! Look at how ingenious his plots are to kill the zoo visitors! And see the sociopathic calm with which he prepares his weapons! Isn't nature inspiring?

I also like the way chimps disprove all those fluffy ideas about animals being too simple and pure for war and cruelty. I saw a doco once where one chimp cheerfully beckoned a park keeper (with whom he had an established relationship) over while his friends snuck around the other side to bring him down (the keeper outsmarted them, but geeze)

Really it's the same sort of anthropocentrism that leads to people arguing that animals don't have love or real language or whatever: humans being a special kind of nasty is still us being special.

Comments

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

In the Planet Earth series (or it could have been Life of Mammals) there is footage of chimps hunting colobus monkeys. They seem to plan and allocate roles then head out to the hunt, they rarely come home empty handed. There is one scene where a few chimps are tearing this monkey apart alive and it shows the face of the colobus. You can't look at that and tell me animals don't feel fear and pain, it's awful to look at.

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

Out of curiousity have you seen the film Earthlings?

[hulzie.livejournal.com]

Rocks make sense, it hurts more and is much easier to store than poop.

[alias_sqbr]

Not a renewable resource though

[hulzie.livejournal.com]

I don't remember Al Gore talking about rocks though. It would be weird if ocean levels were rising because of monkeys throwing rocks into the ocean.

[alias_sqbr]

Of course! Because without pirates shoulders to sit on, the monkeys had nothing else to do!

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Really it's the same sort of anthropocentrism that leads to people arguing that animals don't have love or real language or whatever: humans being a special kind of nasty is still us being special.

Hah! Yes, exactly. And anyone who has spent any time working with animals - or even had a pet - knows that some of them can be downright mean.

Like most country people I have a very jaundiced view of animal rights people and all the other stages of fluffy bunny syndrome down, so I am fully aware I am horrendously biased, but I have to say that in my experience people who think either humans or animals are special always seem to have very little knowledge of animals.

[alias_sqbr]

Hah! Yes, exactly. And anyone who has spent any time working with animals - or even had a pet - knows that some of them can be downright mean.

*looks at my often very mean spirited cat* Heh. Yes :)

But I think thinking of humans as just animals would be just as likely to make you more in favour of animals rights, up to a point: if it's good enough for us, and we're they're same as them, why is it not good enough for them? And the animal rights activists I know (who are on my flist, just so you know :)) don't seem any more prone to that sort of romanticism than anyone else, especially the ones from the country...

In my experience the sorts of people who really go on at length about how much worse humans are than animals aren't actually interested in being nice to animals, they just like putting down humanity.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Trust me, I'm not going to get into an argument with animal rights activists, and I'm certainly not going to do it on your space :)

And yeh, I think I'm just going to walk away from this. There's some stuff that it would be interesting to talk about with you but this one is too emotionally charged for me.

[alias_sqbr]

Thankyou. I reached my limit for "arguments about animal rights that I can't walk away from(*)" some time in the late 90s :/

(*)Though I'd like to make it clear that I have no problem with them if I can walk away :)

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

That's kinda the type of animal welfare I try to go for. Treat them with respect, try to minimise suffering and realise that both of those won't mean they ain't going to little (or big) shits.

*glares at her also rather cranky cat*

I suspect I might be one of the animal rights people from the country you're thinking of, though I do tend not to identify with animal welfare type activities as opposed to animal rights. :P

[alias_sqbr]

I suspect I might be one of the animal rights people from the country you're thinking of, though I do tend not to identify with animal welfare type activities as opposed to animal rights. :P

Oops, sorry, I do realise animal rights /= animal welfare! I didn't think about what I was writing carefully enough.

[the-s-guy.livejournal.com]

Did anyone else read the headline and think "Politics from last year?"

[alias_sqbr]

I'm sorry, I can't figure out what you mean. "Sociopat throwing rocks at people" describes most politicians :)

[sanguinity]

I liked Ed Yong's writeup. (With photos! Of Santino and his arsenals!) I especially liked the description of his emotional state when he was prepping his arsenals.

I've heard some doozies of stories from zookeepers about great apes: they're smart, and they've got nothing to do over the course of their life but figure out how to get the jump on you to get out of their enclosures. And yes, trickery and deceit is very much part of their strategy-set.

(Somehow, I always end up rooting for the apes. Weirdly enough, the zookeepers tell these stories as if they're rooting for the apes, too.)

[alias_sqbr]

Oh that is a good article. He's a scary looking chimp!

I think if I was stuck in the same place all day with people looking at me I might consider throwing rocks at them too.

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

You beat me to it :P

This article was discussed at our media meeting at work this morning. I love it how non humans planning something is seen as being so amazing in articles like this. I mean a bird doesn't randomly fly around picking up twigs and suddenly they just happen to form a nest.

And quite frankly if I was in jail for no good reason I'd be sneakily trying to hurt my captors if I could.

[alias_sqbr]

I love it how non humans planning something is seen as being so amazing in articles like this

I think in general science journalism has an unfortunate tendency to go "OMG! Obvious, dumbed down fact!!".

[gemfyre.livejournal.com]

In the Planet Earth series (or it could have been Life of Mammals) there is footage of chimps hunting colobus monkeys. They seem to plan and allocate roles then head out to the hunt, they rarely come home empty handed. There is one scene where a few chimps are tearing this monkey apart alive and it shows the face of the colobus. You can't look at that and tell me animals don't feel fear and pain, it's awful to look at.

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

Out of curiousity have you seen the film Earthlings?

[hulzie.livejournal.com]

Rocks make sense, it hurts more and is much easier to store than poop.

[alias_sqbr]

Not a renewable resource though

[hulzie.livejournal.com]

I don't remember Al Gore talking about rocks though. It would be weird if ocean levels were rising because of monkeys throwing rocks into the ocean.

[alias_sqbr]

Of course! Because without pirates shoulders to sit on, the monkeys had nothing else to do!

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Really it's the same sort of anthropocentrism that leads to people arguing that animals don't have love or real language or whatever: humans being a special kind of nasty is still us being special.

Hah! Yes, exactly. And anyone who has spent any time working with animals - or even had a pet - knows that some of them can be downright mean.

Like most country people I have a very jaundiced view of animal rights people and all the other stages of fluffy bunny syndrome down, so I am fully aware I am horrendously biased, but I have to say that in my experience people who think either humans or animals are special always seem to have very little knowledge of animals.

[alias_sqbr]

Hah! Yes, exactly. And anyone who has spent any time working with animals - or even had a pet - knows that some of them can be downright mean.

*looks at my often very mean spirited cat* Heh. Yes :)

But I think thinking of humans as just animals would be just as likely to make you more in favour of animals rights, up to a point: if it's good enough for us, and we're they're same as them, why is it not good enough for them? And the animal rights activists I know (who are on my flist, just so you know :)) don't seem any more prone to that sort of romanticism than anyone else, especially the ones from the country...

In my experience the sorts of people who really go on at length about how much worse humans are than animals aren't actually interested in being nice to animals, they just like putting down humanity.

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Trust me, I'm not going to get into an argument with animal rights activists, and I'm certainly not going to do it on your space :)

And yeh, I think I'm just going to walk away from this. There's some stuff that it would be interesting to talk about with you but this one is too emotionally charged for me.

[alias_sqbr]

Thankyou. I reached my limit for "arguments about animal rights that I can't walk away from(*)" some time in the late 90s :/

(*)Though I'd like to make it clear that I have no problem with them if I can walk away :)

[greteldragon.livejournal.com]

That's kinda the type of animal welfare I try to go for. Treat them with respect, try to minimise suffering and realise that both of those won't mean they ain't going to little (or big) shits.

*glares at her also rather cranky cat*

I suspect I might be one of the animal rights people from the country you're thinking of, though I do tend not to identify with animal welfare type activities as opposed to animal rights. :P

[alias_sqbr]

I suspect I might be one of the animal rights people from the country you're thinking of, though I do tend not to identify with animal welfare type activities as opposed to animal rights. :P

Oops, sorry, I do realise animal rights /= animal welfare! I didn't think about what I was writing carefully enough.

[the-s-guy.livejournal.com]

Did anyone else read the headline and think "Politics from last year?"

[alias_sqbr]

I'm sorry, I can't figure out what you mean. "Sociopat throwing rocks at people" describes most politicians :)

[sanguinity]

I liked Ed Yong's writeup. (With photos! Of Santino and his arsenals!) I especially liked the description of his emotional state when he was prepping his arsenals.

I've heard some doozies of stories from zookeepers about great apes: they're smart, and they've got nothing to do over the course of their life but figure out how to get the jump on you to get out of their enclosures. And yes, trickery and deceit is very much part of their strategy-set.

(Somehow, I always end up rooting for the apes. Weirdly enough, the zookeepers tell these stories as if they're rooting for the apes, too.)

[alias_sqbr]

Oh that is a good article. He's a scary looking chimp!

I think if I was stuck in the same place all day with people looking at me I might consider throwing rocks at them too.

[vegetus.livejournal.com]

You beat me to it :P

This article was discussed at our media meeting at work this morning. I love it how non humans planning something is seen as being so amazing in articles like this. I mean a bird doesn't randomly fly around picking up twigs and suddenly they just happen to form a nest.

And quite frankly if I was in jail for no good reason I'd be sneakily trying to hurt my captors if I could.

[alias_sqbr]

I love it how non humans planning something is seen as being so amazing in articles like this

I think in general science journalism has an unfortunate tendency to go "OMG! Obvious, dumbed down fact!!".